Friday, April 24, 2009


I occasionally wish I'd gotten around to experiencing the indie work of Judd Winick before he beat out Kevin Dooley as worst ever writer for Green Arrow. Who knows, though? Maybe I'd have only been more angry and disgusted.

Man, being a comic geek is sad sometimes.


Moviezzz said...

Should I admit that I only know Judd Winnick as the guy on REAL WORLD SAN FRANCISCO? I knew he wrote comic books, but have never read PEDRO AND ME (although I've been meaning to) let alone GREEN ARROW.

The last time I read GREEN ARROW was when Kevin Smith wrote it, which I thought was pretty lousy.

Sorry to hear he isn't very good.

Neil Sarver said...

No, that's fine with me, and not too terribly different than me. I didn't watch San Francisco too much...

(Confession: I watched "Real World: Los Angeles" pretty religiously. I watched San Francisco and Seattle occasionally and didn't much care for either. I haven't watched it at all since then.)

... but I did like him reasonably well on the show. He was the comic guy and whatever.

So, yeah, I always meant to read his indie stuff. I guess liking him reasonably well wasn't quite enough to get me off my ass and part with cash.

I didn't care for Kevin Smith's first run. Much like his Daredevil run, it wasn't that it had nothing worthwhile, just serious needed a real editor. His second, much shorter run, was more entertaining and showed real growth actually.

Brad Meltzer's run that followed was really, really good actually. It's too bad he didn't continue that rather than becoming the Event Guy, because that doesn't interest me at all.

Winnick took over and I was looking forward to it. I had an excuse now. I know the Green Lantern fans had raised hell over him, but they were clearly not arbiters of good, they read the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern book... if anything that was a good sign!

But, no, he started right up showing his lack of understanding the character. And really, Ollie Queen had two long runs, on "Green Lantern/Green Arrow" by Dennis O'Neil and "Green Arrow" by Mike Grell, that were among the most character rich of any superhero runs. So he's an unusually rich and well-developed superhero. And Winnick very early on showed no real understanding of that character - and in many ways should profound misunderstanding of the character - so I gave up, a long, long time ago.

I've also skipped a number of other books like "Outsiders" and whatever that I would likely have been interested in, too, just because of my residual hostility over that.

Tony Dayoub said...

Yeah, GA is a hard character to get a grasp of for most writers. Mike Grell and Denny O'Neil had it right, but a lot of it was influenced by Neal Adams' redesign of the character. I think that steered O'Neil in the right direction, and it's always been evident how much of an influence Adams has been on Grell.

GA is a comic that for some reason seems to beg a Vertigo treatment, something more adult and gritty.

Neil Sarver said...

Denny O'Neil also had the advantage that he was essentially creating the character, or developing past where he had in "Justice League of America" and some back-up stories. I think Grell did, in fact, himself take some liberties from there, but somehow in a bigger sense they made sense.

I'm not sure what the answer is to developing him from here. When Kevin Smith re-incarnated him and restored him firmly in the DCU proper, as the post-Grell material had already, it made sense to me on some level. Certainly the Meltzer stuff where he recalls his place within it was good.

But ultimately it may be too much for most writers to keep up with both sets of logic.

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